Rebuttel To Something Stupid Somebody Wrote
I wrote this on a website I visit and post to all the time. There are some pretty bright people on the site and I enjoy going toe to toe with them. In this instance, another member from this site took on a post I had written denouncing the term "Liberal" This is my reply to him.
Gomez5
where did you cut and paste this from, Rush Limbaugh's site or the John Birch Society? Give me a break. Why do so many conservatives always parrot the people around them? It's like they can't think of an original idea, only mimic someone else. I'm going to respond to "Your" post one step at a time and dismantle it the same way I would take apart a broken lawnmower.
I. Conservatives believe in the primacy of individual freedom and liberty - whereas Liberals see this as inherently dangerous. Liberals believe in the virtues of group grievance politics over personal freedom.
Individual freedom? That's why U.S. citizens are getting wiretapped thru the Bush initiated domestic surveillance program? That's why the FBI is hounding people that check out "subversive" books at the library and creating files on groups who might pose a threat to "national security? Individual freedom is the government trampling the rights of aliens by holding them for years at a time without charging them as "enemy combatants," flouting due process? The Last time I checked we had a Bill of Rights in this country. I believe we also had a Constitution. The Patriot Act, believe it or not, does not take the place of either.
II. Conservatives believe that the resources on this planet are for our use. Liberals believe that Mother Earth is a sacred diety, and that ultimately, humans only pose a threat to it.
They are for everyones use, but conservatives like to use the environment as a giant outdoor business that they can squeeze the life blood out of to increase their bottom line. They think the whole planet is a fully, sustainable resource that does not need to be taken care of. They think that we will never run out of fish, trees, or fossil fuels. The environment is to use, but that does not mean we have the right to destroy it. Under Bush's leadership this is what we have to brag about.
* Superfund cleanups of toxic waste fell by 52 percent.
* Fish-consumption warnings for rivers doubled.
* Fish-consumption advisories for lakes increased 39 percent.
* The number of beach closings rose 26 percent.
* Civil citations issued to polluters fell 57 percent.
* Criminal pollution prosecutions dropped 17 percent.
* Asthma attacks increased by 6 percent.
* There were small increases in global temperatures and unhealthy
air days.
We are the only nation on the planet that refuses to believe we have problem with global warming. Bush refused to sign the Kyote Accord because he said it would interfere with the the U.S.'s economy. It puts an undue burden on business - his base. The most eminent scientific minds in the world agree there is a problem with global warming, but a C student from Yale knows more than they do.
II. Conservatives believe that more government always means more coercion, and that more coercion always means less freedom. Liberals believe that wielding massive governmental power, by the hands of Liberals, can only bring goodness and harmony to the cosmos.
The government is more bloated now than when Clinton was in office. Check out the numbers yourself. Total real discretionary outlays increased about 35.8 percent under Bush (2001-06) while they increased by 25.2 percent under LBJ and 11.9 percent under Reagan in their respective terms. The Federal Government is full of Bush appointees who have been rewarded for their service. Loyalty is important to the administration and they have rewarded those who have upheld the GOP line.
IV. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility and seek to be rewarded by meritorious efforts in a free marketplace. Liberals believe that weakness and victimhood are virtues to be exalted, exploited, and rewarded, and that collective power over successful individuals is the way to even the score.
"Meritorious efforts" include, gutting the industrial sector in the mid west, leaving working people unemployed, and outsourcing their work to the cheapest bidder, sweat shop conditions, dangerous work environments, child labor abuse, poor pay and fourteen to eighteen hour work days including weekends. The problem with a "free" marketplace is that the foundation of working poor that holds the market place together has been enslaved by an elitist few. Production in this country has gone thru the roof. Corporations are raking in millions of dollars and their CEO's are flush with cash from multiple sources, but the wage of the average worker is flatter than an arepa.
According to CNN Money: n 2004, the ratio of average CEO pay to the average pay of a production (i.e., non-management) worker was 431-to-1, up from 301-to-1 in 2003. In the 1980's it was 86 to 1.
V. Conservatives believe that peace among humans must be achieved, maintained, and safeguarded. Liberals believe that the weaker one becomes, that justice and peace just break out, and spread naturally - contrary to all of human history.
The Iraq War, The War in Afganistan, The Gulf War. I feel safer. How about you?
VI. Conservatives believe that life is not a "zero-sum game", but a "win-win" for all. Liberals believe that if someone succeeds, that someone else therefore suffers.
The Bush Tax Cuts benefited the wealthy, not the middle class. 54 percent of the Bush tax cuts, went to the 0.2 percent of households that have annual incomes of more than $1 million a year. Some 97 percent of the tax cuts went to the 3.7 percent of households that have incomes of over $200,000 a year. Virtually none of the tax cuts from these measures went to families in the middle of the income spectrum. Explain how this is a "Win-Win" situation?
The second part of your argument is ridiculous. I've never heard anybody ever say, "I got a raise, that means a kid in Kenya got cancer" That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read.
VIII. Conservatives believe that humans are each endowed by their Creator with varying talents and differences, and that basic human nature is immutable. Liberals faithfully believe that through scientific manipulation, wishful thinking, and fascistic coercion that government can force human nature to change, and therefore, that they can achieve an ever-elusive nirvana called "equality" among us.
"Immutable" is defined as "unchanged over time" or "unable to be changed" Too many Conservatives live in box, and actually believe this nonsense. If basic human nature is immutable, than how did the Civil Rights Act of 1964 get passed? How about the Voting Rights act of 1965? How about the Civil Rights Act of 1968? The world would be a better place if we made an effort at accepting people and making an attempt to give everyone a fair shake, not just those who can afford $10,000 a plate fundraising dinners. It happens. Grudgingly sometimes, but it happens, and will continue to happen, whenever people get together that don't believe in the word "immutable."
X. Conservatives hold that innocent human life is precious, and at all times it should be cherished and protected. Liberals believe that some human lives are a lot more important than others, and seek to punish the successful or exterminate the least powerful among us in order to free up more resources for redistribution by Liberals - for the common "good" of the Earth of course.
Cherish human life? Like ignoring what's going on en Darfur? What happened in 1994 in Rwanda? How about our kids in Iraq dying in a clash between the Shiits and the Sunnis. It's a civil war and we don't even know who we are fighting against. Are we "cherishing" those soldiers? Are we "protecting" them? The Bush administration is manipulating them by using Big Words like Honor, Democracy and Freedom words that they can't even define. What does death before dishonor mean mean when you don't even know what your dying for or who the enemy is? Let's talk about us for a second, the richest country in the world. We have kids with no insurance? Kids are going to bed hungary? That's cherishing life?
X. Conservatives believe that racism is an abomination in all forms. Liberals believe that selective racism (AFFIRMATIVE ACTION / QUOTAS ETC) is a wonderful practice if it achieves their goals.
Have you listened to Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs and all those other sensationalist, xenophobic, alarmists you can find all over your A.M. dial? They've done everything except call White America to War. It's unrelenting nationalist propaganda. They aren't racist? How about the Minute Men? These guys can only handle the idea of America being a big melting pot of cultures if all the people going in the pot are white.
XI. Conservatives believe that some people, organizations, civilizations, cultures, or practices are better than others, judging by their merits - by what they actually achieve. Liberals measure success by how well they emotionally feel about things, and that being beholden to objective, truthful judgments is an ongoing plot by Conservatives to be unfair, cruel, or threatening.
Some people are better then others? From the perspective of what? I make a better empanada than you do, or because I'm a lighter skin color than you? What culture is better the culture of the U.S. or the culture of Norway? Who's the judge? The Republican Party? I can only guess what their answer would be. Honestly, what a lame statement.
XII. Conservatives believe that blind devotion to invented concepts such as the perversions of forced "diversity", "tolerance", "equality", etc. are fraudulent at best. Liberals believe that faithful pursuance of unproven, unachievable fabricated social concepts represents the new path to human enlightenment - even when factually proven to be greatly destructive to huge number of individuals.
Conservatives are frequently the blind ones because they don't want to progress. They live in a vacume. They want everything to stay the same. They want "family values" not your values, the values of the religious right. Their concept is if it's working, just keep on doing it the same way. Why change? This is a comfortable spot. Let's just keep sitting there. Conservatives tend to be resistent to diversity and resistent to change. It makes them uncomfortable. They like their neighborhoods the way they are. They don't want "colored people" lowering their property values. They don't want mental health clinics in their back yard. They only embrace diversity when they are pushed to do so. Read your history. I did my thesis on this and know the topic of multicultural education and diversity like the back of my hand.
The reason they have liberal studies in college Gomez5 is to give people the opportunity to have a broad based education. This form of education stems from some of the greatest thinkers of our time; Socrates, Plato, Cicero and countless others. Without grasping the principles of reason, morality, ethics, and especially compassion found so abundantly in their work and teachings, we have little opportunity to contributing and sustaining a true civilization, one that could be much, much better than this one.
I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes.
The purpose of a liberal education
is to replace an empty
mind with an open one.
- Malcolm S. Forbes
Gomez5
where did you cut and paste this from, Rush Limbaugh's site or the John Birch Society? Give me a break. Why do so many conservatives always parrot the people around them? It's like they can't think of an original idea, only mimic someone else. I'm going to respond to "Your" post one step at a time and dismantle it the same way I would take apart a broken lawnmower.
I. Conservatives believe in the primacy of individual freedom and liberty - whereas Liberals see this as inherently dangerous. Liberals believe in the virtues of group grievance politics over personal freedom.
Individual freedom? That's why U.S. citizens are getting wiretapped thru the Bush initiated domestic surveillance program? That's why the FBI is hounding people that check out "subversive" books at the library and creating files on groups who might pose a threat to "national security? Individual freedom is the government trampling the rights of aliens by holding them for years at a time without charging them as "enemy combatants," flouting due process? The Last time I checked we had a Bill of Rights in this country. I believe we also had a Constitution. The Patriot Act, believe it or not, does not take the place of either.
II. Conservatives believe that the resources on this planet are for our use. Liberals believe that Mother Earth is a sacred diety, and that ultimately, humans only pose a threat to it.
They are for everyones use, but conservatives like to use the environment as a giant outdoor business that they can squeeze the life blood out of to increase their bottom line. They think the whole planet is a fully, sustainable resource that does not need to be taken care of. They think that we will never run out of fish, trees, or fossil fuels. The environment is to use, but that does not mean we have the right to destroy it. Under Bush's leadership this is what we have to brag about.
* Superfund cleanups of toxic waste fell by 52 percent.
* Fish-consumption warnings for rivers doubled.
* Fish-consumption advisories for lakes increased 39 percent.
* The number of beach closings rose 26 percent.
* Civil citations issued to polluters fell 57 percent.
* Criminal pollution prosecutions dropped 17 percent.
* Asthma attacks increased by 6 percent.
* There were small increases in global temperatures and unhealthy
air days.
We are the only nation on the planet that refuses to believe we have problem with global warming. Bush refused to sign the Kyote Accord because he said it would interfere with the the U.S.'s economy. It puts an undue burden on business - his base. The most eminent scientific minds in the world agree there is a problem with global warming, but a C student from Yale knows more than they do.
II. Conservatives believe that more government always means more coercion, and that more coercion always means less freedom. Liberals believe that wielding massive governmental power, by the hands of Liberals, can only bring goodness and harmony to the cosmos.
The government is more bloated now than when Clinton was in office. Check out the numbers yourself. Total real discretionary outlays increased about 35.8 percent under Bush (2001-06) while they increased by 25.2 percent under LBJ and 11.9 percent under Reagan in their respective terms. The Federal Government is full of Bush appointees who have been rewarded for their service. Loyalty is important to the administration and they have rewarded those who have upheld the GOP line.
IV. Conservatives believe in personal responsibility and seek to be rewarded by meritorious efforts in a free marketplace. Liberals believe that weakness and victimhood are virtues to be exalted, exploited, and rewarded, and that collective power over successful individuals is the way to even the score.
"Meritorious efforts" include, gutting the industrial sector in the mid west, leaving working people unemployed, and outsourcing their work to the cheapest bidder, sweat shop conditions, dangerous work environments, child labor abuse, poor pay and fourteen to eighteen hour work days including weekends. The problem with a "free" marketplace is that the foundation of working poor that holds the market place together has been enslaved by an elitist few. Production in this country has gone thru the roof. Corporations are raking in millions of dollars and their CEO's are flush with cash from multiple sources, but the wage of the average worker is flatter than an arepa.
According to CNN Money: n 2004, the ratio of average CEO pay to the average pay of a production (i.e., non-management) worker was 431-to-1, up from 301-to-1 in 2003. In the 1980's it was 86 to 1.
V. Conservatives believe that peace among humans must be achieved, maintained, and safeguarded. Liberals believe that the weaker one becomes, that justice and peace just break out, and spread naturally - contrary to all of human history.
The Iraq War, The War in Afganistan, The Gulf War. I feel safer. How about you?
VI. Conservatives believe that life is not a "zero-sum game", but a "win-win" for all. Liberals believe that if someone succeeds, that someone else therefore suffers.
The Bush Tax Cuts benefited the wealthy, not the middle class. 54 percent of the Bush tax cuts, went to the 0.2 percent of households that have annual incomes of more than $1 million a year. Some 97 percent of the tax cuts went to the 3.7 percent of households that have incomes of over $200,000 a year. Virtually none of the tax cuts from these measures went to families in the middle of the income spectrum. Explain how this is a "Win-Win" situation?
The second part of your argument is ridiculous. I've never heard anybody ever say, "I got a raise, that means a kid in Kenya got cancer" That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read.
VIII. Conservatives believe that humans are each endowed by their Creator with varying talents and differences, and that basic human nature is immutable. Liberals faithfully believe that through scientific manipulation, wishful thinking, and fascistic coercion that government can force human nature to change, and therefore, that they can achieve an ever-elusive nirvana called "equality" among us.
"Immutable" is defined as "unchanged over time" or "unable to be changed" Too many Conservatives live in box, and actually believe this nonsense. If basic human nature is immutable, than how did the Civil Rights Act of 1964 get passed? How about the Voting Rights act of 1965? How about the Civil Rights Act of 1968? The world would be a better place if we made an effort at accepting people and making an attempt to give everyone a fair shake, not just those who can afford $10,000 a plate fundraising dinners. It happens. Grudgingly sometimes, but it happens, and will continue to happen, whenever people get together that don't believe in the word "immutable."
X. Conservatives hold that innocent human life is precious, and at all times it should be cherished and protected. Liberals believe that some human lives are a lot more important than others, and seek to punish the successful or exterminate the least powerful among us in order to free up more resources for redistribution by Liberals - for the common "good" of the Earth of course.
Cherish human life? Like ignoring what's going on en Darfur? What happened in 1994 in Rwanda? How about our kids in Iraq dying in a clash between the Shiits and the Sunnis. It's a civil war and we don't even know who we are fighting against. Are we "cherishing" those soldiers? Are we "protecting" them? The Bush administration is manipulating them by using Big Words like Honor, Democracy and Freedom words that they can't even define. What does death before dishonor mean mean when you don't even know what your dying for or who the enemy is? Let's talk about us for a second, the richest country in the world. We have kids with no insurance? Kids are going to bed hungary? That's cherishing life?
X. Conservatives believe that racism is an abomination in all forms. Liberals believe that selective racism (AFFIRMATIVE ACTION / QUOTAS ETC) is a wonderful practice if it achieves their goals.
Have you listened to Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs and all those other sensationalist, xenophobic, alarmists you can find all over your A.M. dial? They've done everything except call White America to War. It's unrelenting nationalist propaganda. They aren't racist? How about the Minute Men? These guys can only handle the idea of America being a big melting pot of cultures if all the people going in the pot are white.
XI. Conservatives believe that some people, organizations, civilizations, cultures, or practices are better than others, judging by their merits - by what they actually achieve. Liberals measure success by how well they emotionally feel about things, and that being beholden to objective, truthful judgments is an ongoing plot by Conservatives to be unfair, cruel, or threatening.
Some people are better then others? From the perspective of what? I make a better empanada than you do, or because I'm a lighter skin color than you? What culture is better the culture of the U.S. or the culture of Norway? Who's the judge? The Republican Party? I can only guess what their answer would be. Honestly, what a lame statement.
XII. Conservatives believe that blind devotion to invented concepts such as the perversions of forced "diversity", "tolerance", "equality", etc. are fraudulent at best. Liberals believe that faithful pursuance of unproven, unachievable fabricated social concepts represents the new path to human enlightenment - even when factually proven to be greatly destructive to huge number of individuals.
Conservatives are frequently the blind ones because they don't want to progress. They live in a vacume. They want everything to stay the same. They want "family values" not your values, the values of the religious right. Their concept is if it's working, just keep on doing it the same way. Why change? This is a comfortable spot. Let's just keep sitting there. Conservatives tend to be resistent to diversity and resistent to change. It makes them uncomfortable. They like their neighborhoods the way they are. They don't want "colored people" lowering their property values. They don't want mental health clinics in their back yard. They only embrace diversity when they are pushed to do so. Read your history. I did my thesis on this and know the topic of multicultural education and diversity like the back of my hand.
The reason they have liberal studies in college Gomez5 is to give people the opportunity to have a broad based education. This form of education stems from some of the greatest thinkers of our time; Socrates, Plato, Cicero and countless others. Without grasping the principles of reason, morality, ethics, and especially compassion found so abundantly in their work and teachings, we have little opportunity to contributing and sustaining a true civilization, one that could be much, much better than this one.
I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes.
The purpose of a liberal education
is to replace an empty
mind with an open one.
- Malcolm S. Forbes
posted by Luciano at 11:48 PM
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